sotnd conservaleaks

2008-12-16 ZB1 Christmas Eve Surprise
2008-12-16 ZB1 Deleted: Thermite
2008-12-16 ZB1 HelpJazz - home for Christmas?
2008-12-16 ZB1 Email from JessicaT: Re Abuse Desk
2008-12-16 ZB1 Esoteric articles

HelpJazz - home for Christmas?

Ed Poor <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:59:32 -0800 (PST):

I'd like to invite User:HelpJazz back into the project. He seems to
have taken my block very hard, and I can understand that. When
Wikipedia desysopped me, I pouted for quite a long time.

Creating an encyclopedia is not an exercise in jurisprudence. It is an
adventure which requires close cooperation. And as an experienced real-
word Editor told me, leading writers is like herding cats. I had the
chance to work 18 months with the Unification Church's most successful
publisher (Gordon Anderson) and the New World Encyclopedia's managing
editor (Robert Brooks). I think they would approve of getting the
JazzMan back into the fold.

You know, lost sheep and all that. Besides, it's almost Christmas.

Any thoughts, my friends?

Ed Poor

CPAdmin1 <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:27:14 -0800 (PST):

Maybe if you did something about his complaint, (about bugler) he
would be likely to come back.  Night Edit rights (which he earned a
long time ago) would be good too.  We know he isn't a vandal, so it
isn't a risk.


"Brian Macdonald" <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:27:13 -0600:

I would say yes to that.

"Brian Macdonald" <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:28:38 -0600:

I like him a lot, and he's done very good work for the site, but Bugler
really needs to take a chill pill.

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:27 AM, CPAdmin1 <>wrote:

"Bill Bagot" <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:55:26 -0800:

He has been a strong, longtime editor who until the last couple of months
was pretty much respected by everyone.  It would be a shame to lose someone
who has shown that ongoing dedication.  How many people can we really claim
have supported our site for a year and a half?

I think it would mean a lot to him Ed if you specifically told him that you
valued his input and you believe the site is better with his contributions.
It would go a long way.

Bill  (Learn Together)

Geoffrey Plourde <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:25:32 -0800 (PST):

Lets work towards molding his activities towards a more productive end, shall we? I do not advise blocking him, but maybe someone should mentor him?

Ed Poor <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:55:56 -0800 (PST):

Bugler's blocking instincts are good, but he's not as polite as he
ought to be. Let's all take turns reminding him to tone it down.


"Bill Bagot" <>, Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:55:21 -0800:

I'm all for blocking vandals.  And I understand that sometimes you need
someone who is hardnosed and pushes the envelope with those who are just
ongoing complainers and space wasters, but sometimes he's shutting off
people who could be good users just because they question.  If we could get
him to stop doing that last part, it would really help the site.

Bill  (Learn Together)

"Brian Macdonald" <>, Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:23:48 -0600:

Got an email exchange with's what went on:

> To:
> Subject: Conservapedia e-mail
> From:
> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:43:44 -0600

> Here's the bad news: You need to tone it down, and I'm serious about it.

What you need to tone down is your relations with others on the site, i.e
you cannot be impolite. Try to be as polite as possible, and when you block,
just block, and give a simple valid reason in the block line. Try not to do
blocks that others would think to be unnecessary, like your 1-minute block
just now.

> Here's the good news: First and foremost, I like you and your presence in

Conservapedia. The bad guys may hate you, but they hate me even more, and
I've demonstrated that fact in more ways against them than just within CP.
Second, the toneing down of yourself is not without a necessary reason
that's beneficial to you: there is a push by some of us, myself included, to
make you a sysop.

> So, what do you say?

> Karajou

Hi Karajou

Many thanks for your post. I appreciate that I have been a bit over the top
recently, and I apologise for that, and for embarrassing my colleagues. I
will do my best to behave in a restrained and discreet fashion - in fact, I
had already decided to spend more time than I have been on creating new
articles, and less on what is often fruitless controversy and grandstanding.
As for the 'bad guys' - yes, no point in giving them ammunition.

Thanks again for your advice, and for your comments both neghative and
positive. Whether or not the promotion you speak of comes about, I'll do my
best to work with my truly Conservative colleagues to help build up this

With best wishes

Brian (Bugler)


I think we can work with him and get him to do what is necessary to improve
himself and his conduct.  He is serious about ensuring the protection and
well-being of Conservapedia, despite his flaws.

Any thoughts?

DeanS <>, Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:24:38 -0800 (PST):

Thanks for sharing that email thread with Bugler. If he will improve
his tone and concentrate on creating / enhancing the articles, I would
support his promotion to sysop.


"Brian Macdonald" <>, Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:20:03 -0600:

He is definately needed here.  The tone of his attitude is the problem, and
I think he recognizes it now.

John Patti <>, Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:10:33 -0800 (PST):

I am sure you can lure him back with block rights re-installed. Per
his posting on brain-wiki   == So, with Bugler having outed
himself...==   Moderates and I don't see I to eye often. But to get
him not to post there instead back here would be a big win.

On Dec 17 2008, 3:20 pm, "Brian Macdonald" <> wrote:

Ed Poor <>, Fri, 2 Jan 2009 07:35:11 -0800 (PST):

I don't want to lure anyone back. Once an employee has quit a company,
he ought to be willing to come back at any level of responsibility.

In my church, when top leadership wants to test a leader's potential
for advancement, they often give him an unmerited demotion (on
purpose), just to see how they take it. If they regard it as a chance
to concentrate their energy in a smaller arena - and prove themselves
thereby - then they can sometimes get a double promotion right
afterward. (I should probably write an article on Unification Church
internal politics sometime.) Most prominent leaders who are removed
from a high position are unwilling afterward to serve in any lower

"It is beneath me" is not the motto of the infinitely upward bound
executive, let me tell you! My first boss (a former Harvard dean by
the name of Ronald Holt) told me, "We all must do a certain amount of
janitorial work."

The best motto to have is, "I will do whatever job no one else wants
to do, if that what it takes for the company/project to succeed."
That's how come I was able to be so successful at ABC.

Ed Poor

"Bill Bagot" <>, Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:37:04 -0800:

HelpJazz had over 5,300 edits and was driven out.  He was Bugler's main
target and nothing was done to prevent it.  We have a history of shooting
our most prolific editors and treating them in a fashion that does not match
their contributions.

At one time consensus for new sysops revolved around BrianCo, HelpJazz, and
Jpatt.  Within one week's time, all three had been accused, ridiculed, or
embarrassed.  Even Jpatt (hi John) had one of the articles he had worked
hard on reverted -- without discussion first, because a sysop didn't like
it.  We need to treat our longstanding editors with respect.  We are
supposed to nurture and encourage those who have shown us loyalty, not laud
our power over them.

Bill  (Learn Together)  

"Terry" <>, Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:53:50 -0800:

Bill, with respect: READ THE WARRIOR HANDBOOK!

This is not uncommon.  They have shown extreme patience.  Yes, it is highly
probable one good sock would be highly productive, Bill.  Yes, they are that
serious and organized!  Their goal is to get here.  They have not given up
in over two years, Bill.  They are spending thousands, out of pocket, to
continue this "war", and I suspect they are getting funded by left-wing
groups who have been doing such funding to win the Internet for seven years
or more now.

Will HelpJazz/Jazzman might not have been overt, his agenda was clear.  How
many vandal attacks was he off-line for?  How many innocent email and IM
conversations did he have with CP Admins, learning information that would be
passed on to spark conflicts between us?  Certainly PJR's and Tim's
opposition to policy escalated greatly in the past six months.  I don't
think PJR was/is involved with them directly, but I did observe many users
playing to his concerns openly which surely it was a big part in keeping the
chaos alive and very public. That does keep real conservative editors away.
That is part of their "plan".  If you would only read their blueprint,
written by GenghisKhant/BrianCo/MadMin/CatWatcher himself, Brian Cohen, you
would understand.

*        Terry

"Bill Bagot" <>, Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:15:44 -0800:

My friend the problem with this is that is casts suspicion on everyone and
ignores and even nullifies all of the loyalty and good work that someone
does for our site.  In a sense I think of it as similar to the position
taken on global warming.  Is it hotter than usual?  That's global warming.
Is it colder than usual?  That's global warming too.  Just as everything
ties back to global warming under that scenario, everything ties back to
enemies under the handbook.  If there's a serious question about someone,
have them provide evidence for who they are.  It worked to out Bugler and
Rod Weathers.  It's surely better than frowning upon every good thing that
someone does for our site.

Peace to you,

Bill  (Learn Together)  

"Terry" <>, Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:34:06 -0800:

That is taking an example to the extreme, Bill.  Trust, yes.  But verify and
always be checking.

*       Terry

2008-12-16 ZB1 Christmas Eve Surprise
2008-12-16 ZB1 Deleted: Thermite
2008-12-16 ZB1 HelpJazz - home for Christmas?
2008-12-16 ZB1 Email from JessicaT: Re Abuse Desk
2008-12-16 ZB1 Esoteric articles

Last updated 12 Apr 2011 by Georg Kraml.